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Everything posted by André Mermoud
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When you choose two or several different orientations in the "Orientation" parameters, you will have, in the system definition, the opportunity of defining a sub-array with a "Mixed #1 and #2" orientation. The mixed array allows the definition of strings in both orientations, connected to the same inverter. During the simulation the I/V characteristics of strings in both orientations will be mixed. PVsyst accounts for the mismatch loss, which is the difference between the MPP of both sub-fields independently, and the MPP of the mixed I/V characteristics. When mixing I/V curves of strings with comparable voltages (i.e. same number of modules in serie), the mismatch is very low. However when putting modules of a same string in 2 different orientations leads to a the mismatch in current (due to different irradiances), which may be very important. This would be a very bad system and PVsyst doesn't allow it. This configuration would only be acceptable when using optimizers performing MPPT at the module level, but this is not yet implemented in PVsyst. NB: In the version 5, you can define only 2 different orientations in a given system (option "Heterognous orientation"), and 3 different kinds of sub-arrays: Orient#1, Orient#2 and #Mixed (for both orientation on the same inverter). If you have more orientations you should define different sub-systems and perform different simulations.
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The inverter power sizing is not a trivial task. In the system definition dialog, the button "Show Sizing" opens a summary of all sizing conditions, dynamically bound to your definitions. The upper diagram shows the voltage limits for the number of modules in series: They also show in violet eventual current/power limitations of the inverter specifications, which are not mandatory, except if they are contractual (i.e. if they act on the warranty). The lower histogram shows an estimate of the power distribution available at the output of the array in your meteo and orientation conditions. If the inverter is of good quality, it will limit its power simply by displacing its operating point on the I/V curve of the array. In this way, the over-power has not to be dissipated: it is simply not produced. Therefore there is no technical danger to apply an oversized PV array to an inverter, this may operate at some occasions over its nominal power without problems. The diagram shows that even for undersized inverters by respect to the high-power edge of the distribution, the annual loss may stay very low. The optimal inverter sizing will correspond to a yearly loss between 0.2 and 3%. Above this limit the normal process considers it as unacceptable, but you can change this limit. The usual values of the PnomArray(DC)/PNomInv(AC) ratio are of the order of 1.25 to 1.30. This ratio is depending namely on the plane orientation: with a façade system, the maximum power is 2/3 of the maximum at 30° south. NB1: The nominal power at the DC input of the inverter is higher than the Pnom(AC), by a factor of (1/Efficiency). NB2: In this tool, the overload loss is only a quick estimation according to this histogram. The loss calculated by the detailed simulation will usually be lower, as the simulation takes other losses into account in the array behaviour.
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In PVsyst, the criteria for the sizing of the inverter with respect to the array nominal power is to evaluate the foreseen yearly overload loss. Losses up to 3% are considered acceptable (warning "The inverter is slightly undersized in orange). Higher annual losses prevent performing the simulation (warning "The inverter is strongly undersized in red). Array sizing limitation For some special uses (for example output nominal power constraints for tariff, Grid power limitation, economical optimization, etc), you can modify this limitation. In the version 5: in the main menu, please choose "Preferences" / "Edit hidden parameters" / topic "Detailed Simulation Verification Conditions". Here you can increase the value "Limit Overload loss for design", which is fixed at 3% by default. in the version 6, the definition of this limitation has been moved in the Project's definitions, (so that it is valid for the project, not for the full software). When you are in the Project's definition, please press the button "Project settings" Be careful !!! When defining highly oversized arrays, the voltage displacement on the P/V curve of the array may overcome the VmppMax of the inverter, and in this case the system has to stop and the loss may become catastrophic ! With such systems you have to work at rather low voltage. Inverter limitation It is also possible that you get the error message: "The array maximum power is greater than the specified Inverter maximum power (or current)". Some Inverter manufacturers specify a maximun Nominal Power of the array connected to their inverter, or a maximum current (ISC value of the array). To my mind this is not really meaningful, as the operating power is controlled by the inverter input circuit, which will manage for not overcoming the limit values (power limitation by moving along the I/V curve). These values are not used during the simulation. If this messages appears in blue, no problem, it is just an information. If this message is in red, with the mention (contractual condition), it means that the manufacturer submits the warranty of his product to this condition (i.e. overcoming these values will cancel the warranty). Therefore PVsyst will prevent defining such a configuration. Now this "warranty" information is specified in the inverter's specifications, by a checkbox "Required" for the "Maximum PV Power (or current)". If desired, you can uncheck this checkbox, and save the inverter (under another filename). In practice, this is under your own responsibility.
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There is indeed a problem with such inverters like the Tripower series of SMA, which have 2 different MPPT inputs: one for the main part of your system (usually 2-3 strings), and a secondary one where you can put the "remaining" of your modules in one string. With Version 5 PVsyst V5 is indeed not foreseen for treating such assymmetric MPPT inputs, and you will have Power limitation conditions. Nevertheles you can overcome the problem by modifying the number of MPPT inputs in the inverter definition. Please redefine your inverter with a number of MPPT inputs equal to your total number of strings (and save it under another file name). After that, you can define one "main" subfield by (N-1) strings on (N-1) MPPT inputs, and the remaining string on the last MPPT input. In the reality, the strings of the (N-1) first inputs will of course be connected together on the main "physical" MPPT input. With Version 6 This has been implemented: such inverters with unbalanced inputs have a "Main" and a "Secundary" input. In the "System" definitions, you should define 2 sub-arrays, one involving the "main" input (with usually several strings, all identical) and the other one the "Secondary" input (with usually one string, i.e. the "remaining" modules of the system). If you have several inverters, you can define several "Main" and several "Secondary" inputs of course, eventually in sub-arrays of different kinds. But be sure that for each inverterthe whole system is using both Main and Secundary inputs (identical total numbers). If you get a warning about the eventual oversizing: If the inverter is "slightly" undersized (orange warning), no problem, you can perform the simulation. If the inverter is "strongly" undersized (red warning) , you can modify the parameter for this warning, in the project's parameters, button "Albedo-Settings", item "Limit overload loss for design". This is not necessarily significant, because: - at the design time, the "nominal power" sharing between both inputs (for design criteria) is done according the the limit input current ratio of each input (for ex. 50A:12.5A, means 4:1 ratio). - at the simulation time, the power sharing is adjusted according to the nominal powers of the modules effectively connected to each input, so that the overpower conditions will be met by both inputs in the same operating conditions. This is probably nearer to the real behaviour of these inverters. You should perform the full simulation for getting realistic results. Example of use (version 6): Suppose you have to build a PV system using 155 PV modules of 250 Wp, i.e. 38.75 kWp. 1. - Choose the inverter(s), according to a reasonable PNom ratio of 1.25: you need inverters for PNom(ac) = 38.75 kW / 1.25 = 31 kW. 2 inverters with unbalanced MPPT, of PNom = 15 kW should be well suited. 2. - In the "System" part, Define 2 sub-arrays, 3. - First one: define "Main" input with 6 strings of 20 modules (i.e. 120 modules), and 2 "Main" inputs: you get a PNom ratio = 1.25, quite correct. 4. - There are 35 modules left to be attributed. This will correspond to 2 different "Secondary" inputs, so you have to increase the number of sub-array to 3. 5. - Sub-array #2, define 1 "secondary" input, and attribute 18 modules. 6. - Sub-array #3, define 1 "secondary" input, and attribute 17 modules. 7. - Now the Warning "The inverter power is strongly undersized" appears in red, because the Overload loss in over 5% (depending on the meteo). You have to increase the "Limit overload loss for design" in the project's definitions. Now your system is ready fort the simulation. NB: in the present time, with Unbalanced MPPT inputs you have to define one Main and one Secondary input for each inverter. However it seems that some manufacturers now allow for not using the secondary input, so we will suppress this requirement in a next version. NB: Some people want to use these inverters with unbalanced inputs with only one input. Although this seems to be allowed by some manufacturers, you are not advised to do that. Up to version 6.32, PVsyst required that you use each Main and each Secondary input of all inverters. If you wanted to define a configuration using one only input, you had to redefine a new inverter in the database, with only one MPPT input. Since version 6.33, you can inform PVsyst that you are using only the "Main" input using the button "Adjust".
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The nominal power Pnom is the maximal output ac power of the inverter in any conditions. Some manufacturers define a maximum power Pmax , which is the maximum power attainable under specific conditions (they sometimes say "half an hour", but it is probably related to the temperature of the inverter). Now this temperature is very difficult to estimate, this would require a complete knowing of the environment of the inverter, ventilation conditions, etc. This is not done in PVsyst, and therefore the maximum power cannot be taken into account. By the way in "normal" systems correctly sized, this bonus is probably low. And in "strongly oversized array" systems, the maximum output power is detemined by the contractual acceptance of the grid, and this bonus doesn't apply. NB: perhaps in a future version, PVsyst will be able to take the Pmax value into account for inverters installed ourdoor. This will require additional specifications about thermal behaviour from the manufacturers.
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In the database, bi-polar inverters are defined by the mention "Bipolar inputs" in the technology specifities box. With the bipolar inverters and in the system sizing tool, the voltages are clearly indicated with the +/- mention. The number of modules in series correspond to the full voltage (i.e. 600 V for +/-300V indications). The module Vmax should perhaps be modified. The module's datasheets usually specify that the module should not be implemented in installations overcoming 1000V. But it is not clear if this limit is applicaable to the full differential voltages in the system, or only the voltage by respect to the ground. You should contact the module's manufacturer for assessing this limit.
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InvLoss Global inverter loss - This is the sum of all inverter losses. IL Oper Inverter Loss during operation (efficiency curve) - The inefficiency loss, computed according to the efficiency curve. IL Pmin Inverter Loss due to power threshold' - Loss when the power of the array is not sufficient for starting the inverter. IL Pmax Inverter Loss due to power overcharging - When the MPP power is over the input power required for obtaining the specified PNom(ac), the inverter displaces the operating point on the I/V curve in order to get exactly the required power for Pnom(ac). This IL Pmax loss value represents the difference between the Pmpp and this adjusted power. NB: The displacement is towards higher voltages. If the voltage exceeds the Vmaxmpp limit of the inverter, the inverter has to stop, and the Pmpp is fully lost. IL Vmin Inverter Loss due to low voltage MPP window IL Vmax Inverter Loss due to upper voltage MPP window - If the Vmpp is outside of the inverter's window (Vmppmin/VmppMax) the inverter will clip it to the limit value. This loss is the difference between Pmpp and the corresponding P of the I/V curve at the limit value.
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You have defined Transformer losses. When connected to the grid, the transformer consumes some energy (iron losses), explaining this night negative energy. You have the opportunity of disconnecting the transfo during the periods when the inverter is OFF (in the rreality, this means a HV automatic switch on the grid).
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We will organize courses as Webinars soon.
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Option for simulating three dimensional 2 axis tracking system
André Mermoud replied to rsheth's topic in How-to
What do you mean by "3-dimentional 2-axis tracking systems" ? You can define 2-axis systems in the "Orientation" part, and for mutual shading calculations in the "Near shadings" editor. -
This negative value is rather low (around 0.3% of Pmax) The simulation is performed on a complete hour, and therefore also the "Night disconnect" function. Now in for one hour the PV production doesn't compensate the iron loss of your transformer, you can have a negative balance over the whole hour.
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PVsyst is developed under DELPHI, which is closely related to Windows. It cannot be run under other operating systems.
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Changes in Uc & Uv result in increased mismatch loss
André Mermoud replied to Enginerd's topic in Problems / Bugs
This is explained by the fact that - The mismatch loss is computed as a a percentage by respect to the STC power at each step. - The result in the loss diagram is displayed as the percentage of the remaining energy after the preceding loss. Therefore the reference is not the same so that the percentage changes between the parameter definition and the results. In your case, when increasing the Thermal loss, you increase the difference between the STC value and the remaining energy. NB: This calculation according to STC is not quite meaningful (it is an historical choice). In the future version 6 the loss will be computed by respect to the remaining energy, so that the Loss result will correspond to the specified loss parameter. -
Any way to do simulation on three different Orientations system
André Mermoud replied to travisji's topic in How-to
No sorry, in PVsyst you can simulate a mix of 2 orientations on a same inverter input (Orientation option "Heterogeneous fields"), but not 3. The only way (approximation) would be to simulate two orientations in a simulation with heterogeneous fileds, and perform in independent simulation with the third orientation. For doing this with this particular inverter you can redefine your inverter as 2 different devices: one with 2/3 nominal power, and another one with 1/3 (or the shares of your different arrays). In this way the mismatches between string 1+2 and string 3 will not be taklen into account; but their influence is probably not very high. -
The transposition model (and therefore the gain) is highly dependent on the diffuse fraction in your meteo data. Please carefully check these values (in the Meteonorm data of PVsyst, you have 38.6% of diffuse in Bamako, and 35.2% in Marseille). The transposition values given by PVsyst are usually considered as realistic. Now we don't know how the manufacturer's data have been established.
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PVsyst doesn't take the altitude correction for inverters into account. The correction - when necessary or specified by the manufacturers - is mainly related to cooling capabilities (air pressure) and results in a diminution of the Nominal outpout power. If you want to take this into account, you have to redefine your inverter with a new Pnom corresponding to your altitude (i.e. change the value, and save your inverter under another file name).
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You can download the program PVsyst V 5.xx (last version) from www.pvsyst.com, and install it. It will run during 30 days with full possibilities, and then revert into DEMO mode. For getting your licence, please open our site www.pvsyst.com, and choose "Order" / "Purchase online" - You can pay directly by credit card. In this case we send you back your activation code, along with a paid invoice. - Or you can pay by bank transfer. When we receive your order, we send you back the invoice (valid 30 days), and we send the activation code as soon as we receive the payment. This may usually take 1 to 3 days.
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The "Local number" is an identifier of your PVsyst installation on a given machine (more exactly a given Windows installation"). It is established by PVsyst: you cannot change it. You can find the "Local number" in the main menu "License" / "Code and Activation". You need an "Activation code" matching this "Local number" for using the program.
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With version 5.xx There is a tool in PVsyst for transferring the code from one machine to another one. After installing the software on the target machine, please carefully read the "Local number" produced. Then you come back to the original (licensed) machine, open the tool ("License" / "Transfer to another machine"), which will ask for the new Local number and will deliver the corresponding code. Please note it carefully, and keep this information for the future. After that, the original machine will turn itself into DEMO mode. This procedure may be performed as often as desired. With version 6.xx In the main menu, open "License" / "Status and activation", press the button "Transfer" and follow the instructions. You will have to deactivate your license on our server, and then you will be able to reuse it on any other computer. NB: You will need your "Customer ID" for performing this transfer, which is mentioned on your invoice or the mail containing your activation key. If the computer where the license was activated is unavailable (reformatted, lost), you have to contact our administration admin@pvsyst.com, and explain the problem.
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You can obtain a contextual Help from anywhere in the software, by typing F1. You also have some little buttons (orange questionmarks), which provide more specific information. NB: There is no user manual at the moment. But you have some Tutorials in the help, for some guidance during your first steps in the software. Namely about: - Meteo Data, - How to create and develop a project, - 3D Construction for shadings.
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In the main menu "Files", you have several options: - Export whole projects, ensures that all files involved in the project are well taken into account, - Import whole projects, which dispatches the files in the suited folders. - Import and Export Database elements, which will position the components files in their corresponding directories.
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For the versions 5.xx Since version 5.2, depends on your Windows OS: - Under Vista and Windows 7: c: \ ProgramData \ PVsyst \ Data \ - Under XP and olders: c: \ Documents and Settings \ All Users \ Application Data \ PVsyst \ Data \ Now you can also have yourself delocalized the data structure anywhere else (i.e. created directory "PVsyst_Data"). The directories actually in use are listed in the dialog "Files" / "Directories" It is possible that you don't see the c:\ProgramData\ directory: see "I don't see a folder "\ProgramData\" on my machine". It is also possible that you don't find your data in the c:\ProgramData\PVsyst\Data\ directory: please see "I don't find my files in the \Data\ structure". For the versions 6.xx The data structure is normally in c:\Users\"yourSession"\PVsyst6_Data\ If you have displaced them the actual path in mentioned in the main menu of the software: "Files" / "Workspace", User workspace ... You will find a complete description of the Database structure and localization in the Help: "Technical aspects > File organisation > User data > Projects and PV components".
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Under Windows Vista or Win7, this folder is always present. But it may be "Hidden". For seing the hidden files or directories in your Windows File Explorer, please: - Open "Windows File Explorer" with the administrator rights (i.e. right-click the icon and choose "Run as an administrator"), - In the menu of the explorer "Organize" / "Options of folders and research" / "Display", choose "Display the hidden Files and Folders". Under Windows XP, the equivalent location (where \admin\ and \data\ directories are stored) is c: \ Documents and Settings \ All Users \ Application Data \ PVsyst \ Data \
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The files you have created or modified are normally stored in the following folders: - Under Vista and Windows 7: c: \ ProgramData \PVsyst \ Data \ - Under XP and olders: c: \ Documents and Settings \ All Users \ Application Data \ PVsyst \ Data \ Now with Vista and Win7, if you don't have Windows rights for writing in these areas from your user session: when the program attempts to write on this area, Windows delocalizes these files and places all files written by the program in the special location: c:\ Users \ User \ AppData \ Local \ Virtual Store \ ProgramData \ PVsyst5 \ Data The files in \Virtual Store\ are treated by the program as if they were located in the PVsyst folders. NB: This is not a comfortable situation. You should obtain Windows writing rights for this folder.